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TGGuide TeaRoom Chat
Sun 04/27/97

Telling Your Family



Angela Hello. Is anyone here or am I early?

Randi Yes Angela I am here

Randi Greetings sister

Randi ANd welcome to the Sunday Night Tea Room Chat

Randi How are you Angela???

Angela Hi. I've lurked during the last few topics, but I thought I might join in for this one

Angela I'm doing pretty well tonight. And you?

Randi hope all is well

Randi ok just finished dinner here...

any mouse Hi Randi....thank you for inviting Bobbie and I.

Michelle Anne A lurker??? Oh my!!! *smile*

any mouse Hi Michelle and Angela.

Michelle Anne Hiya " " :)

Randi glad to have you on board

Angela Is it usually this dead at the start, or am I the only one that has family issues?

Ginger There maybe now I will have a name!

Michelle Anne Much better Ginger.. Hi there :)

Ginger Well we have told everyone but my dad....and that is a touchy one.

Ginger Hi Michelle...again....and Angela..

Randi Hi Mianne and our guset lurkers {GRIN] And welcome to the Sunday night chat....tonight we will talk about Coming out to the Family...who would like to start

Angela Hello Ginger.

Randi did you handle it???

Ginger Well like I said all 6 of our kids know and both mothers...but not my dad...

Randi because each of us has done so differently

Ginger I told the two youngest boys at ages 7 & 10 and just explained that there are lots of different folks in the world.

Michelle Anne Let me know when you want the "How not to come out story" *smile*

Randi Ginger you brought up something that we do need to address.......and that is how to deal with the children

Sheri Gwen Hi Female Siblings Mine! {{{hugs}}}

Michelle Anne hello again, Sheri.. :)

Ginger Okay not to?

any mouse One thing to say about coming out ...

Randi MiAnne **HUGGGGGSSS***** there is one similar here as well

Ginger Sheri, hi. It's nice to meet you.

Randi Hi Sheri and welcome

Michelle Anne Ginger.. 1) Don't try telling folks via telephone.. 2) don't announce it to your father on Father's Day.. 3) If they want to send you to a hostile therapist, don't expect that by complying that it will bridge the gap any..

Randi did they deal with it???

Ginger Well I think its best to talk to your family when you are not dressed femme. Talk to them and then say I'll dress for you now if you don't mind.

Kimberly from CT Hi all, I will explain what I meant in the other room, sorry about not getting back just then as i had to say good-bye to the other rooms I was on. (and close about 15 other applications) (GRIN)

Sheri Gwen Every one in my family knows. I told them about my TS situation back in June. EVERYONE took it very well. I could NOT have been happier. But now that things are actually "DEVELOPING" along, as it were, attitudes are starting to faulter. (Maybe they thought I was KIDDING?)

doc gary interesting concept ginger how did they deal with it? Did they want to see you dressed?

Ginger Our two boys were wonderful. They thought I was very pretty and always complimented me. My Mom asked what she did wrong??? of course. My dad still hasn't been told.

Steph Hello Everyone! I got reallly drunk about 5 years ago, called my mom, and poured my heart out!

Kimberly from CT father's day?? How'd did you know I did that!?!?

Randi I was caught dressing as a teen and was sent to a therapist who tried to 'cure' me...of what I still to this day do not know

Ginger Yes, no one said no to my dressing for them.

doc gary does mon or dad seen to take it better

Michelle Anne Sheri, that's very common.. before all the troubles with my folks arose.. I told my roomie (a 70 year old woman) she was very understanding and supportive, but started to get a bit uneasy as I began to live as me. Comments along the lines of "I still have to live here!" but things smoothed over before too long..

Randi and then when I was doing a tlak show in Seattle a couple of my relatives saw and related it to my be honest they were not pleased...but what disturbed me was my mother's reaction...not so much was I happy but was I getting 'paid'

Michelle Anne Kim.. did your father take it any better than mine did? :)

Angela Maybe this is for later, but once you're out is there a best way to make your family deal with the situation?

Randi MiAnne what is the state of the relationship with your folks????

doc gary did any of you ever discuss these feeling with your parents when you were younger?

Michelle Anne Angela.. You cannot make anyone else do anything.. you just have to live your life for yourself the best you know how and hope that your family will see, respect, and maybe even appreciate that...

Ginger Well everyones opinion now would be appreciated. HERE GOES>>>>> when i went to my dad's 80th birthday party last month I read his bio which he has written and everything manly is important to him. I don't know how to approach it this time.

Randi Angela we sure will

Arwen I have been telling family members slowly one at a time and try to give that person time to cope ....

Kimberly from CT I don't know, My father actaully told me before I could tell him, he shcoked the ^&$# out of me (this does need further explaination)

Michelle Anne Randi.. We visit each other about once a year, and maybe get on the phone twice more a year, otherwise, they pretty much seem to want to forget that I exist.. and it's been 3 1/2 years since I came out to them..

Heather.B Takes A seat. And Listens..

Sheri Gwen I'm sure the initial shock will sink in and wear off as I get closer to Full Time. I'm planning to go to a niece's wedding out of state in June and they all know it will be "ME" that is attending. No requests for me to decline the invite as yet.

Randi Ginger....I am wondering and this is for they realize you are the same person no matter what????

Steph I guess I've been very fornunate, My entire family knows and I have 100% love and support.

Randi mine have threatened to come here but they will not meet any males here except our cats

Kimberly from CT Yes, thankfully they do in my case, and those I wasn't sure could realise that , I re-assured them of it.

doc gary randi think the older generation has a problem with the concept of sex and gender as two different entities

Sheri Gwen Doc Gary, I told my mom about my feelings when I was 19. I'm 37 now. I think she was waiting for the other shoe to drop ever since.

Ginger Randi, yes in fact Bobbie (my spouse) has had to point that out to me a few times...that I am only one person!

Randi Welcome Steph, Heather!!!!

Malana All ears!!! Hugs Randi!!!

Sheri Gwen Anyone know why my pic worked in the other room but not here?

Randi DOc...if one also throws in culture/race....then there is another set of is not acceptable......but haveing a 'harem' of women is

Ginger What didn't help my case with my mother was I was caught crossdressing in the neighbor's age 12. She and my dad were divorced..and she decided she couldn't handle me.

Randi Hello Malana!! Sheri type in the same pic URL hon!!

Michelle Anne Doc Gary.. that does vary a bit.. I often find senior citizens to be far more open and understanding to transgenderism than many people in mid-life or younger. As Kim mentioned, those that seem to accept it well almost always seem to know even before you tell them.. this happened in a few occasions with me.. even with people I'd only known a couple years, and while I was still trying desperately to hide the feminine self from others as well as myself..

Angela Is it easier to come out when you're older. I came out about being TS four years ago at 16.

doc gary i agree randi did anyone have a doc or therapist that was hip to the idea that sex M/F anatomy is different from gender. If so were any of them able to convey this to your parents?

Randi I am sorry Ginger **HUGGGGGGSSS***

Kimberly from CT Ok, I think I'd better explain my situation so that I don't confuse anyone along the line. I've mentioned the possibility of an intersex condition on here previously. What I have done is I used evidence from my past and a bit of creativity to convince all those around me that I have a physical condition requireing the changes I am going thru because I know all too well that none of them would except a metality theory.

Ginger Angela, no it is not easier because you are probably talking about being married and having children. that makes it a lot more complicate.

Sheri Gwen ...It's the same...

Randi are we talking anatomy or mental makeup doc????

doc gary I woudll think it would be easier for you angela b/c not as many ties as if you were married with kids anyone agree

doc gary michelle you know the saying with age comes wisdom i would agree with you about the seniors we can learn alot from there wisdom

Randi Sheri not worry...we know you are beautiful no matter what

Malana ...was scrolling to catch up....3 issues...ultra-conservative 10 & when the time comes??? call me quakin w/ fear!

Ginger Kimberly, as far as having an intersex condition were you raised as a male or female?

Michelle Anne Kim.. there is evidence within my body structure that I am intersexed as well.. Somehow I don't think that were I to suddenly drop of a biogenetics report to my folks and say "Look!" would they feel any different. They refused to even look at videos, books, and other media I have on the topic. That is what hurts, not the unacceptance, but rather the refusal to even look at any other perspective that might conflict with their hard line prejudices..

doc gary Randi i mean we are all born with a set of anatomy M or F but we are also born with a gender M or F and sometimes the plumbing does not fit the gender mental psyche part of us

Sheri Gwen Randi, some mysteries I hate.

Randi but does not also the experience and education help in the acceptance as well??

Kimberly from CT It got to the point that I didn't even have to say word one, when I went to tell my father I had told no one else, and he came up with a story before I could say anything, this was to distract me. He then said "okay, what you have to tell me, is it that you have both male and female parts" At this both me and my non-stepmother both dropped our jaws to the floor, she almost fell over when I said "Yes".

doc gary wait INTERSEX please explain to me missing something here kim and michelle

Heather.B This is very Intriguing. I made a wall around my self at age 7 or 8 and made a choice to not make any freinds or ever getinto a relationship because I knew this was what I was going to do some day. and it has worked. No one knows me thus no one could realy say any thing about what I was doing. My Mother Knew around 12 or 13. my father,, I was about 16. and the rest of the Family about the same. It has gone very well for me. I think I made the right choice to close my self off from the world early on in life.

Ginger I would have to say yes experience helps facilitate understanding...both my sister and my youngest daughter had transgendered friends, co-workers.

doc gary hermaphrodite???

Randi Sheri....if you were to email the pic I can put it up on our server.....By the by....the above question.....any thoughts????

Michelle Anne Sheri.. take the www. off of your URL.. should just be

Sheri Gwen Heather, I hope you are NOW making up for lost time in the friendship department, sis.

doc gary heather yes closing yourself off help but does it help in letting society know who you are and giving them a better understanding that your not leopards

Malana Seems like most of us intuitively knew, but dealt w/ that knowledge slightly differently. I compensated by trying to be all the male son my father wanted. Total denial except for secret times.

Ginger How do you tell a father who makes bad transgender jokes as well as homosexual jokes??? I could use some tips.

Sheri Gwen Like this, Michelle?

Heather.B Oh Yes.. for some time now.. I am Me. Not What I was. And Happy as a Lark...... My Life was on Hold for 16 Years..Now I am Alive...

doc gary michelle kim did you get my previous question

Randi because in some communities...even with all of the medical evidence.....there are still those who think that it is bunk

Malana Okay Ginger, my pop is w/ yours!

Kimberly from CT Well, to answer two questions I see there, the first was I was raised as a male, and in part to someone whom I can best describe as the ultimate testosterone junkie, he tryed at every turn to mold me into his own image, it never happened from day one, but it has caused me to modify my behavior somewhat in order to survive with less beatings and mental stress. the other thing is yes, I do find educating them on the facts is one helping factor.

Michelle Anne DG, no not Hermaphoditic.. But for instance.. (pic isn't the best) I have very feminine cheekbones, but my jawline is very masculine.. this carries throughout my body.. I have yet to do a chromosome test, possibly being XXY (Kleinfelter's) but I doubt it.. a Hermaphodite would be XXYY though, and have both sets of genitalia..In these cases if noticed by the doctor, usually surgery is done to orient to one sex or another, though I feel that should wait until the child makes up his/her own mind.. But that's off the topic.. :)

Kimberly from CT Yes, I did, just writing long replies Doc. Hermaprhodite=Intersex, it's the PC word for it.

Malana Kim, you had to put on the athletic act, too?

doc gary michelle i would have to say you look nothing like kleinfelters other than maybe height.

Heather.B Doc... It dose not Matter.. I never was thus there was nothing to close off in my mind. It was a Premedatated Choice at a early Age.. Doc I am a Ploter not a Just do it kind of person. I have a tend to think in the most Logical Ways to best Help what I am doing..And for me It worked.. But you must rember I did this around age 6. so it was not like I was pulled from the earth for some years only to return as Heather..

Randi Ginger my father was a cop...and I heard the jokes growing up....not to mention he pointed out who the 'freaks' were every time we were in Manhattan.....his cronies used to bust the TV hookers....and made them the butt of a lot of bad jokes

doc gary kim so you therefore have both male and female genitalia

Michelle Anne Kim.. not quite the same.. All hermaphrodites are intersexed, but not all intersexed people are hermaphrodites.. Again, you deal with XXY and XXXY chromosomes, plus secondary sex genes also can play a role in this..

Randi Kim my father was the same

Malana How many of our early choices are our own and how many are influenced by events?? Did anyone have defining moments??

doc gary ok heather did not realize yu were talking age 6

Ginger Okay, so far we have don't do it over the phone, don't do it on Father's day...and be ready to educate with what...reading materials...anything else?

Randi true Mianne

Randi events...not so much events here as it was opportunity

Sheri Gwen I have to go, sisters. A realestate agent just showed up to show the house. SURPRIZE! And I was about to start TRANSFORMING for work!! That could have been interesting! See you again soon! {{{hugs}}}

doc gary goodnite sheri

Sheri Gwen Great, NOW the pic works!!!

Malana Ginger, don't try the thrusting reading materials in the face tack...I did that with my wife and she booted me out into the cold!

Randi as in I moved far away enough to try to find out if I really was tran

Kimberly from CT In my case I've always been suspicious of a surgical scar I have below, I have never had any surgury before I was 29, but yet, there's scars that i can only guess are from birth. I am suspicios this is something my Father already knew and when I went to tell him my "story" he distracted me and beat me to it, but denyed any knowledge of anything done to me at birth. Even though he saw evidence, he did have a difficult time understanding it. He still make wrong remarks, but I understand his mentality and just let it pass, it's more than I could have hoped for otherwise.

Michelle Anne Malana.. Scientists, shrinks, philosophers, and everyone else have been arguing the nature vs. nurture concept for years, and there still isn't any real definitive evidence either way yet, (some evidence relating to the size of the corpus collosum) but, I think it really doesn't matter.. I have no "defining moments" I just knew from my earliest memories..Whatever the case is, it's not important as to how I "became" this way, just that I live my life and be happy..

Ginger Well its a good looking Pic Sheri...and BYe for now.

doc gary why don't you just get your medical records than kim and find out for yourself

Angela Is there really good materials out there to educate people with? My first therapist gave my parents a page of references, and I think the most recent copyright date was '84.

Randi and it took time to get to that

Malana my case it was alot of both!! I think I would've transitioned 20 years ago if not for an "environmental event".

Heather.B My Realy only Problem I have is I feel Like it is some Crule Joke. My Theripist Said I will Never lose that anger.

Ginger Perhaps the best reading material is right here on the net.

Kimberly from CT Doc, do I have both parts, I don't really know. but I bleed on a regular basis, have had secondary female development before HRT.

doc gary yes michelle but when you start getting into brain structure stuff they did those for homosexuality i don't think any of you fall into that (for lack of better word) catagory of persons they were try to prove something about

Randi the best materials are pure medical ones...those that come from many of the gender groups do have a political bend

Kimberly from CT Yes, I would love to do that. Don't know the first thing about how. I know where I was born, but aside from that I have no info.

Randi and as such they do not help

Malana I'm not sure I agree w/ whoever said that transitioning older is easier....obviously more past history to deal w/ adjusting relationships, friendships, etc.

doc gary ok back up kim need clue me in , what do you me you bleed on a regular basis (sorry everyone) KIM to be blunt to you have a vagina penis and testicle

Randi by the by what exactly are is that literature now saying about coming out to the folks????

Kimberly from CT Michelle, from what I have read, XXXY sounds like the best description of "the story" I used. (hmm, didn't I think I wouldn't be able to offer anything into this discussion tonight? I guess I was wrong)

doc gary kim if you have your birth cert should say what hospital you were born at start there and track you med rec's from that point.

Michelle Anne Doc.. Yes, there has been further exploration regarding a biological origin for homosexuality among men.. (nothing done with esbians, but the medical community is still very much patriarchial) That related more to the hypothalmus than the corpus collosum though..

Mariah Hi all, sorry I'm late , (power failure)

Malana Heather, I think many of us feel that "cruel joke" is hard enough!

Steph "The Univited Dilemma-A Question of Gender" by Kim Elizabeth Stuart is *must* read for all. It's avalible thru Metamorphus Press, PO Box 10616, Portland Or. 97210

Randi because a lot of it may not work with some of us here

doc gary really XXXY = XXY because you always drop one barr body

Randi Steph thanks........Hi Mariah

Steph What's up Mariah!

Michelle Anne Hiya Mariah.. better late than never! *smile*

Mariah Randi, the latest material I've come across has differing opinions about it. One says to wait until the last minute ( why) and the others say to be open and honest.

Randi doc I do not know your field but in you circle.....have you met many of us who were intersexed and have you had to explain this to their parents

doc gary You are correct michelle but still i have not seen much lit on TS if you have ref could you please email then to me, I have be doing quite exhausting lit search on medscape

Kimberly from CT Ok, the bleeding is about once every 6-12 months, Last one was in July. I expect this to change with the HRT, this has been happening since I was 21, and at 24 was the incident I refereed to earlier where "evidence" was accidentally discoverd, I used an excuse then that I caught "it" in the zipper as I was far from thining I'd ever be in a position where I could transition

Randi brb

Michelle Anne No, DG.. the two are not the same.. XXY is Kleinfelter's XXXY is true hermaphrodism.. The latter being far more rare than the former..

Kim, I would definitely also ask your doctor about having a chomosomal analysis done..

doc gary hello Mariah

Ginger Well until I go full time I have decided to wait it out in telling my dad....

Michelle Anne DG.. best reference on the subject I know of is a book (also made into a Discovery Channel special) called Brain Sex by Anne Moir

Steacie (Ont.Can) Hi all, just got in. Glad to see everything still running

Kimberly from CT that'w what I thought Doc, XXXY=XXY ok, that helps in some of the things I use to explain this to them.

doc gary michelle is correct but remember you always drop one barr body or X so when we say XX it really means X and XY really means Y

Ginger then there will be no backing out.

Michelle Anne Hiya Steacie :)

Malana I'm a little concerned about the shock to my parents when /or if I tell them...of course there is also the secondary issue of being cut out of the inheritence..I know how tacky that sounds..but had to be honest.

Randi back this would indicate to me that you were destined to be female and that maybe the parents should have read up on that

Kimberly from CT Wait a minute, now that I think about it, that can't be right. Let me go grab my book on human sexuality and development...

doc gary randi have delievered one baby with both a vagina and penis and they chose to do chromo studies to determine a perference than were going to wait awhile and see if child develop any male or female tendencies

Randi Hi Stacie**HUGGSS*** and welcome

Mariah Sorry, power hiccup ( if I disapear forgive me)

doc gary kim you still have me confused as to your anatomy

Elizabeth Hi Mariah, Sory about last night..How are things going?

Randi Doc then what happens?????Are the parents hip enough to understand

Randi welcome Elizabeth

Michelle Anne Doc.. Just so long as they make the right "choice" for the child, and the child does not feel like he or she is living in a lab..

Strange though that there is so much interest and concern when there are noticeable biological signs, but even 10 years ago, shock therapy was routinely prescribed for "boys" with feminine behavior..

Elizabeth Hi Randi, You don't know me but I'm Steph's SO.

doc gary Randi unfortunate baby of alcoholic mother not to big in the brain dept. Eventually lost pt to follow up she happen to be one of our indigent pt not really good at keeping appts

Ginger Doc Gary, I joined this chat tonite for how to tell the family. Although your medical prowess is great I would still like help on how to tell my dad.

Mariah Here's an open question : told my parents ( Mom only ) and she " just doesn't understand". I tried to explain to her how I feel and gave her a bunch of materials on gender dysphoria and TS. Any suggestions?

Randi let's bring up another facet here....if the information were much more readilly available...would this have helped with your parents as far as coming out is concerned??

Malana I admire heather's single-mindedness...I've spent too many years trying to live other people's perceptions of who and what I should be.

doc gary True it what we call be vogue in medicine now we use shock therapy for elderly depressed patients

Mariah Hi Elizabeth...sorry we missed you too. ( Becky is here also )

Randi Ginger....what type of background does your father come from???????This will be key to how to approach him

doc gary well ginger i would have to defer to the experts and listen and learn like you Randi Mariah, MIchelle Kim Malana

Randi Welcome again Elizabeth and Becky

Elizabeth Hi Becky, How are you?

Randi father is and always will be striclty blue collar...he was a cop...NYPD 21 years...and that type of background is very difficult to deal with

Mariah Elizabeth, I'm fine. Randi, Hi.

Michelle Anne Mariah.. It's next to impossible for a non-transgendered person to understand..sympathy can be developed, but true understanding is rare.. Best analogy for explaining I heard came from a letter I have around here somewhere by Sarah Seton (sp?) Suppose your doctor advised you that you needed corrective surgery right away, and without question, you consented, you awoke from the anesthesia to find yourself with the genitalia of the opposite sex.. Would that in fact make you the opposite sex? Function as such, but would that be how you are? That is how a transsexual is born..

Malana How many of us have had strong (and sometimes absent) father types. Mine sounds alot like Ginger's and Kim's!

Randi not many who went on the force were shall we say to be enough to understand

Kimberly from CT Actually Randi, I did do quite a bit of studying when I saw a chance to use my various evidences (not just the blood, there are many other things) as a chance to pull off transition, I knew first of all what my family's opinion of transgendered peoples were and that there was no chance, so I used everything about me to create this intersexed story, I use this book i found at a recycling station called "Human Reproduction and Sexual Behavior" By Richard E. Jones which has a bit of info on developmental problems with the sexes, I also used info from the Intersex Society of North America, I aslo have used my sister's unusal problems as even more evidence (she is seeing an endocrinologist/reproduction specialist too) she has more body hair than I just to start off, but she was tested and found to be a GG. but with a very high testosterone level.

doc gary LOve tha t analogy michelle!!

Randi Malana....even many times when he was there he was not like all that aware..

Ginger My dad went from no high school diploma to retired GS15 civil service. he did get his GED at age 63!

Michelle Anne Yes, Randi.. Would have loved to have had more resources at my disposal when I came out to my folks.. Wasn't on the net yet or anything.. and only recently before coming out was I able to put "labels" such as gender dysphoria and transsexualism on to how I felt.. Quite a number of resources available online, but offline, you can't just open your local newspaper and find addresses and phone numbers for gender friendly therapists and support groups.. very difficult..

Randi Kim do you have the address of the second group??????? Ginger.....I mean how does one tlak to person about T-issues whaen he was one of those who along with his partners took went out of their way to attack

Malana Mine is the same type carrier pilot, before he became a stock broker in pursuit of the almighty $. Well, maybe no the same as he's a bit of a bigot.

Mariah and Becky Thanx Michelle Anne, I am in total agreement with you. My Mom thinks that I am going on this 'tangent' because I had never showed any signs to her while I was growing up. She thinks that my Doc. is putting ideas in my head and doesn't believe that I want this for myself. ( Mariah)

Edie Hi girls,.........................{{{Surprise HUGZ}}}

Randi MiAnne....could you have explained that in the industry you and I [to a lesser extent now for myself] are in that there are quite a few people who are T and are just like everyone else?

Steph & Elizabeth Mariah: Might want to just give her a little time. When I came out to my mom about five years ago I received immediate and total support. I do consider myself fortunate.

Annie Hi folks...What's the topic tonight then? (A question that must have been asked a million times already!)

Steacie (Ont.Can) Is there any easy way to tell my SO? Tried once with my first SO and needless to say I am now with my second SO.

Malana I think my parents still harbor the expectation that somehow I'll be elected to the a Republican of course!!

Kimberly from CT Sorry, spent too long on that response and the topic shifted, well, I'd say it wouldn't change thier minds, they are something of a thick headed group, as I do have an uncle who is gay and because of the family and thier mentality he lives down in DC so as not to interfere with our lives, which sucks, because here's a relative I know absolutly nothing about aside from one thing.

Randi Welcome Edie **HUGGGGGGSS***** pull up a chair.......Malana.....what was it like in your house growing up then???

Michelle Anne Yes Mariah.. I know, that's how my dad reacted.. figured the therapists I consulted on my own were biased and must have convinced me that I was transsexual.. so he was going to take me to a "Neutral" therapist, for which I agreed, but nearly walked away when I saw the sign: Christian Counselling Center

Edie My mother wanted a girl, my father wanted a boy,............Now they're both happy.

Randi is coming out to the folks and Family...pull up a chair and join in!!!!!!! Kim...please go on hon....

Randi Edie how did you deal with them hon???

Edie BRB,...............nature calls.

Teri Liegh Edie, You didn't say hi to me in the Kaffe Haus! *pout* *grin*

Randi There is no easy way...I know far too mnay couples that have divorced because of it

Michelle Anne Randi.. The industry? as in computer tech stuff? Hmmm, I've explained to a number of other techies, and some understand, some don't.. Just like everywhere else.. But it is interesting to note that it seems a very large number of T* people are in computer or engineering related fields..

doc gary Has anyone thought that you need to be happy and no matter how you break it some people are just not going to be accepting. Therefore you need to move on and do what makes you happy!

Randi Greetings Teri....

Kimberly from CT Intersex Society of North America... Web URL Oh yes, and doc, the best I can describe is that things aren't fully developed or misformed in a way, there is a penis, but it looks somewhat manipulated to appear that way, it does function for urination, and as far as a vaginal opening, that's also part of the mysterious scarring

Randi well Mianne...I was also refereing to [legitimate] show business

Annie Coming out?... hmmmm I'm afraid I chickened out really.. my sister told my folks and I moved area and job to avoid telling...

Steacie (Ont.Can) Hi Teri

Randi thank you and got the bookmark Kim

Malana was interesting..I'm the the oldest of 3 boy/girl,girl,boy '56-57-58 pre birth control. Dad was gone alot Mom didn't drive, I was the academic, and brother was killed at age 14 in a gun accident 3 doors down. Left me to "carry on the name" just when I was at 17 figurin thing out ..all plans were summarily put on the back burner.

Michelle Anne Is it that T'ism is also associated with higher intelligence overall? Or could it perchance be like I was describing earlier, those not in computer fields know knowing of the online world, and never find a home, going on in shame feeling like the "only person in the world" living despondent lives if not worse..

Randi Annie was your relationship with them strengthended or weakend??? Hi Teri!!!!!

Edie My dad, I threw flowers on his grave. My mom I just gave her a big hug. Told her she wasn't losing a son, but gaining a daughter. My mom has been GRRRRRRRRRRREAT!!!!

doc gary ok kim will discuss that with you at a later date

Malana Oh, folks think that Limbaugh is a liberal.

Randi MIanne....that would make sense.....look at the doctors, lawyers, pilots, engineers, architects, scientists....etc...that would say we are extremely intelligent

Michelle Anne Show biz?? Oh, how'd you get the idea I was really in that industry? I've done some extra work and collaboration with screen writers and such from time to time.. but I would consider my industry to be computers and not entertainment..

Edie Sorry, Teri. I tried to talk to you, but no answer. Anyway {{{HUGZ}}}

any mouse Randi & Mianne, Again I must refer you to "The Univited Dilema" It has a great deal to say about the intelligence levels in Ts's.

Malana Open question: How was sex ed. dealt w/ at home?? This strange little book apperaed on my pillow mysteriously and 2 weeks later disappeared just as mysteriously.

Randi Limbaugh a liberal????????hmmm....Howeever what needs to be said here to ios the depending on the cultural background....the flip side of this that the ethnic minority end of this is populated with hookers, dancers and those who are on the fringe...this is very true in the black and hispanic communities

Edie My brother is in prison for murder. He threatened to tell my employer all about me if I testified against him. That made me furious, and I just said screw it. Nobody is ever going to have that kind of control over me again.

Michelle Anne Malana: sex ed and home were mutually exclusive in my case.. It was something, "we just don't talk about."

Annie Well dad ignores me and won't see me... dead relationship there... but even though my mum and sister were close to me, my transition has actually brought us closer. It's a girl thing I guess, but we talk about anything and everything now, and I talk to my sister on the phone every night.

Kimberly from CT yes Doc, I have thougth of that, and I have it down to this, seeing as I'm using a physical deformity as my way of coming out, for someone to have a problem with the deformity is as similar as someone having problems with someone who is blind or deaf, and if someone is THAT closed minded, then I don't want to know them, I haven't met that individual, I have met some who are close (my father and my brother) but even they are slowly gettin an understanding of things, in fact my brother recently saw something on discovery channel or TLC about various sexualities and among them was someone who seemed to him to be exactly the same as what I have been telling everyone, he does still pick on me and call me dude, or go running off when I try to show him a skirt, but I understand that he is trying to accept this and he has shown remarkable progress as has my father who even once used "daughter" in a sentence when refering to me. I am giving them time to deal with it.

Randi Mianne...sorry but that could be used as an example

Edie Now I'm just the sweetest, kindest, most unselfish and loving son of a bitch anyone would ever want to meet. *smile* :-P

Randi same here it was never discussed in the home...we were to learn it in the street

doc gary I really believe people are going to be accepting or there not going to be accepting and no matter how you tell them It is going to be there choice whether or not to accept you for who you are

Randi Edie!!!!!**HUGGGSS***

Angela Have to run..parents just got home. Maybe I'll return later.

doc gary KIm i think you hit it on the nose tell them give them time and they will either decide to accept you or not accept ypu

Edie Gosh darn, why is everyone so quite. Did Marci walk in.

Annie My mum's a nurse and so accepted the medical facts. She was also responsible for making sex education a part of growing up instead of some special thing that was "sprung" on me... It was just biology after all...

Randi doc optimistic but reality does sit in and not everyone is going to be

Kimberly from CT Yes, this can be true, but even I have been somewhat closed-mided about things only to learn otherwise and be understanding at a different time. I have actually found most people who don't understand more than willing to try to understand.

Malana My son just had his first wet dream and wife just called me and wants me to deal w/ it over the phone..I don't think so..I'm takin him golfin this week and we will have a nice casual, but factual discussion.

Ginger Doc, do you think people can change from being non-accepting to accepting? What about everyone else's thoughts on this?

Randi Annie mine was an RN yet with all the medical data....she still acted like what was expected 'culturally'

Gayle (Minnesota) Hi Randi hope i ddi not miss much

Edie {{{HUGZ}}} Back at ya. I'm at my electrologist's now doing some work on her pooter. I should be home in an hour or so. See ya all!

Annie Hmmm, well Ginger, I guess that if someone transitions and it is clear that is permenant and not just a "phase" they might come around and tolerate it...


Gayle (Minnesota) Hi edie nice seeing you tonight

Kimberly from CT It does seem like they do accept me, but it's a weary acceptance that seems to be widening and opening up every day. I just have to be carful how much I can shove in thier face without driving them away. I do know thier limits and have been careful not to cross them. This is possibly how I am gaining acceptance, they have a respect for who I was before and who I am is still who I was, just a change of clothes is all.

doc gary yes i do i think just have to give them time to figure out in there minds what the heck is going on. Many of them may feel as though they did something wrong and need get in there minds that it has nothing to do with them

Randi Ok Edie!!**HUGGGSSS***

Edie Hi Gayle, gotta get back to work. Talk at ya later.

Randi Hey Gayle sit down and join in

Annie Yeah, Randi... I guess it depends on the person in question. It was all matter-of-fact to me. But I couldn't help but be jealous of girls when I heard about the baby-carrying stuff and breasts and everything... *sniff*

Rachel Hello everyone!!!!!

Randi ***HUGGGSS*** Edie!!!!!

Michelle Anne Kimberly, that is true.. and a good sign.. I think those who flat out refuse to try and understand are mostly those who've had their minds pumped full of narrowminded intolerance through religious conservatism.. Along the lines of, "This is the one true path, and everything else will lead you astray, so avoid those worldly temptations.." Without naming names, I think I've given you the general sense of the idea.. That infuriates me.. If you don't understand, sit down we'll talk, if then you disagree, fine.. go on and live your life and I'll live mine.. but refusing to even make an effort to understand.. that is not good at all..

Gayle (Minnesota) Hi Rachel HUGS

Randi Rachel welcome....!!!!!!!**HUGGGGGGGSSS*****

any mouse Hi Rachel :)

Rachel Annie, I know what you mean about being envious...I keep telling my SO that I weould love to switch places with her when she gets her period.

Randi In some places it is easier to understand someone who has babies out of wedlock or robs a bank or sells drugs than understand transgendered people

Malana I've pretty much decided to put off telling everyone as long as possible, but not really out of fear as much as just not wnting to deal w/ the stress of distractions and well-meaning advice givers. Career implications, too.

doc gary i agree with michelle, education i believe is the key along with exchange of ideas

Ginger Rachel, my SO says you can have her PMS and her period if you want it!

Gayle (Minnesota) Randi I'll set and watch and see what is going on for a bit ... I have told everyone that needs to told at this time

Malana Aw MiAnne,...*giggle* name names. *grin*

Randi and that is a common theme with some fo the girls I have talked to

Rachel Ginger, thanks, anytime!!!!!! Just wanna experience it at least once.

Kimberly from CT That's exactly how both my parents took it as though it was something from them. On my father's side there is supposed to be (but this was only revealed to both him and me when this was mentioned to an aunt) someone who is a cousin to my father who was known as a female but was intersexed, and the story is that she dies on the operating table in 1951 when doctors attempted to "fix" her condition. Of course there's nothing like this on my mother's side, but there is still the unusual nature of the things wrong with both me and my sister, it's not every boy who bleeds and grows breasts without HRT.

Randi Ok Gayle you are welcome none the less

Annie hehehe... periods are no fun, Rachel... Like many TSs, I get a monthly cycle the same as normal women, but without the bleed! I feel like shit and bark at people for a couple of days. That's tolerable, but when your in PC Support, you end up saying "Well why haven't you tried reinstalling the operating system!!!!!!!"

Ginger What is a common theme Randi....being envious?

Malana As an educator, I'm not sure I'm ready to deal w/ the narrowmindedness of some 50 of my on-site peers before it is necessary.

Steacie (Ont.Can) Ginger, how did you tell your SO about yourself??

any mouse Rachel, Steph is my SO and she always tells me that she wishes that she could be in my shoes.

Randi Education is key...but whose books do we use........and whose standards?

Rachel Annie, *grin* As horrible as it sounds, I would still like to experience it.

Mariah and Becky Is that you Steph?

Gayle (Minnesota) Doc I agree with you Education is very important. But you have to have people willing to listen first

Kimberly from CT Rachel, I'll gladly let you have mine! Although I do like the cleaning mood I get. Lot's accomplished when I get like that (hmm, I wonder if that might be increased with HRT or decreased??)

Randi no the theme of accepting socially criminal behavior or micegenation [sp] vis a vis being a tran

Michelle Anne Randi... in those other scenarios, you mentioned.. those people can easily be described as "victims of society" They were desperate for money and never went to school and learned ethics, sort of argument... But transgenderism, particularly MTF, is a very foreign concept within a still very male oriented consumer society.. "Why would someone want to be a sexond class citizen" Likewise similar attacks along the same lines from a few feminists.. IE "Gender Slumming" but these people who can justify the actions of a bank robber, cannot always understand that their is no "want" or "choice" in the matter.. I'd have happily lived my life as a man, had I been given such a choice..

Annie Rachel, it even goes as far as makeup not going on your face right!!! It's a very weird thing. I started a cycle after about 4 years of hormones, and now it's settled down to being about 5 weeks apart...

Rachel Thanks Kimberly *HUG*

Randi Gayle you have heard this as well from Gloria I take it

Steph & Elizabeth Mariah and Becky, we are both here..Thought you guys were gone...(E)

Ginger Steacie, I never had to tell my SO. She found a bag of clothing I had purchased and a wig and asked what it was for. I then asked her to help me with makeup...neither of us had ever heard of CD or prejudices...or preconceived notions on either of our parts.

Mariah and Becky We had a power blip. Would you like to go to the other room?

Rachel Annie, where are you from?

Randi MiAnne...I was never really happy male...

Annie hehehe Kim, I want to go to bed early the first couple of days, and then get hyper and do household chores like crazy after... !!!

Gayle (Minnesota) Oh how true Randi... had a freind attending a local College and her psyhc. teacher use the a text book writen 20yrs ago a nd that we wer still perverted animals ....

Steph & Elizabeth Mariah and Becky: We will meet you over there..**poof*

Malana Randi, your comment about never bein happy male was the revelation that I had long suppressed. Didn't even make the depression/anxiety connection for a long time.

Randi Ginger in that respect you are lucky

Annie I'm in Scotland, UK, Rachel.

Michelle Anne Neither was I Randi.. like I said.. If I had the choice, that would have been great.. No pesky hormones, electrolysis, therapy or surgeries, etc. to deal with, just go on business as usual.. But as I'm sure you're aware.. it wasn't that simple..

Gayle (Minnesota) I have Randi ... and I wonder what can be done

Rachel Was just curious, Annie....Always a pleasure to meet new girlfriends!!

Michelle Anne Dealing with transition is a far easier thing to do than go on living a lie...

Steacie (Ont.Can I could try that or hope she walks in while I have the chat line up on the screen.

Randi well it is true....very few activities that I was involved in male made me happy over an extended period

doc gary annie have relatives in scotland

Annie I never bothered trying to conform...another sign of weakness

Malana How does one apprroach ones children??

Kimberly from CT Here's another intersting factiod from my past... 1976, a news report on WWOR on tv about parents deciding the sex of thier children AFTER they were born (I know, I still don't understand how they came up with that headline, but WWOR is known for it's sensationalism at times) I mentioned (I was 10) to my mother who'd many times claimed she always wanted to have a girl, that "I'd like to do that" she went nuts! this was one way I knew just telling wouldn't work, it's a good thing her long-term memory is lacking.

Randi MiAnne I am very aware....Malan it takes sometimes just the right circumstance for that to arise

Gayle (Minnesota) Malana Mine know of Gayle Daugther is supportive and my son does not want to hear about it at all...

Annie My mum can't remember me saying I wanted to be a girl either, but she remembers my grandma saying "That's a waste of a lovely lassie" about me (out of my earshot!)... hmmmmm

Kimberly from CT Yes, Annie - I always forget about that, the big sleep just for no reason. I'll hit the hay as early as 6pm when I usually go to sleep between 10 and 12, and if I tryed to just up and do that any other time, I'd either not be able to sleep or I'd just get headaches from oversleeping like I did today. normally I can't sleep more than 5 hours, on a day like that I can do 10

Ginger Well everyone it has been very nice being here. Thank you all and I hope to see you again...

Rachel What makes it tough for me is, I have a hard time thinking about my son growing up without a father because I did...It hurts me alot!

Michelle Anne Kim.. with the scars and other clues.. I wonder if the extreme hostility you are getting from folks regarding such matters presently as well as in the past is based upon them in fact having decided with the doctor to raise you as a male, and seeing you now expressing yourself as a woman creates a lot of guilt and shame upon them that they made the wrong choice, and in their own denial and shame therefore refuse to talk about it as much as possible, hoping not to reinforce your feelings with any show of support..

Randi Kim how true....and that happened before the NY Post....Malana that is very key here.......does anyone have children who can share what they know?

Rachel g'bye, Ginger!

Malana Gayle, I think that's how mine would be...I'm much closer to daughter(10) than son(12) anyway, but think I should avoid it for now as growin up today and dealing w/ the separation is hard enough.

Annie How about dizzy spells on the loo in the morning, Kim! That's a weird one, that!

Randi **HUGGGSSS** Ginger see you next week!!!

Kimberly from CT I partly grew up without my father. What I did know of him made it easier to grow up without him. I'm not suggesting you go that far, as I think he might have been that way partly to make it easy on us, as I've said so many times to my brothers, "you know how he used to be, and that is not who he is at all, he's like a completely different person".

Randi is it true that if they are approached when they younger that they are more accepting?

Kimberly from CT Oh Gawd! Annie, don't remind me of those, I've had those since I was 14!

Michelle Anne I mean Kim, your father being extremely oriented towards the masculine, could perhaps be the result of him sitting down with a counselor after you were born and surgery performed saying "Your childs gender identity could go either way, therefore it is essential to instill into "him" a very firm sense of masculinity.."

Randi any thoughts

Rachel Randi, mine is too young but I hope he will understand when the time comes for him to know.

Gayle (Minnesota) Malana My Daugther is 11 she very understanding a has give her opion on how I look... I was not the one that told her, the ex wife told her. My son has know for about 4 or 5 yrs now

Amy Lynn Hi, everyone

Malana The last thing I want to do is mess up my kids. The separation is hard enough. I guess some of us can't have our cake and eat it too!

Annie My dad gave up on me along time ago, Michelle. He's never been much of a father to either me or my sister. I think he was disappointed when I turned out such a feminine child, and when the voice didn't break and stuff he just gave up... More fool him./..

Michelle Anne Randi, children are born with no prejudices and only two fears (falling and loud noises) everything beyond that is taught... Children can be very accepting until taught otherwise.. Remember in school how many times they drilled into you, "Never talk to strangers!"

doc gary that is quite possible michelle depending on what year kim was born in

Kimberly from CT Michelle - This is why I am suspicious of him, he's been exactly like that for as long as I can remember. As soon as I hit puberty all he ever did was question my sexuality. He'd go as far as telling other relatives "I gotta get that boy a hooker and make a man out of him"

Randi Mianne...that is why I could never really have kids......there would problems..I would try to be liberal...but I know that if were to do the socially acceptable thing they would not be raised that way

Malana Kim, was your Dad insistent that you wear your hair short. Mine cut mine every 2 weeks, and went so far as to nickname me 'Butch"!

Randi Malan so how will you handle it??

Gayle (Minnesota) Randi it depends on the child..

Randi Malana mine felt that way as well

Rachel Well girls, time for me to check was nice chatting with everyone!!!! HUGS

Kimberly from CT Doc, I was born in mid-1966. News update on Empire state Building, according to WNYW fox 5, 1 dead, 7 wounded. Gun man shot himself, but is alive.

Randi and also the parent

Michelle Anne That could very well be, Kim.. I would suggest you follow Doc's advice and search out your early medical records.. once you have it on paper, approaching may be a little difficult still, but I'd think mostly to tell them that you know the truth, but that you have no animosity over their decisions, they tried to do what they felt was right.. Empathize with the dilemma they must have been in when you were born in such a way.. I mean especially at that time, there was no way they could have just raised you very intersexed (or hermaphroditic) in school and all.. had to choose for you.. If you relay that understanding back to them, it might help.. any other thoughts?

Randi Ok Rachel and HUGGGGGGGGSSS!!!!

Annie I saw the news report in the UK, Kim..

Randi I Agree MiAnne

Malana Randi, hmmm, think I'll let nature take its course. If we were less visible, or kids were not attending a small Catholic school etc.,etc., it might be easier. Wife is still in denial. I think it might be less disturbing to a 15 yr old boy than a 12-yr old one. Son is extremely sensitive, daughter is very open. It will be easier for her.

doc gary annie were in scotland I ahve family in dundee and edinburgh

Randi any other thoughts????

doc gary kim i really think you owe it to yourself to get your medical rec from birth and read through it

Annie Because of my medical history, I was DAMN lucky that my mum and dad didn't get me onto testosterone shots at 14!!! Think of the damage!!

Randi because for those of us with children that is another key to a successful transition

Annie Doc, I'm about 30 miles from Edinburgh...

Gayle (Minnesota) Ture Randi...I tryed to raise my kids to be open minded..

Malana Re ESB, what a waste. Any feelings on my attitudes re the kids, Randi?

doc gary love that country so beautiful

Randi here our kids are cats so they only know love

Annie So do mine, Randi!!!

Malana Randi, great philosophy...too bad we humans often mess it up!

Kimberly from CT My father didn't get to have as much influence on me as he'd have liked as my folks seperated when I was 8. my hair was always kept short until I got to middle school, about 12. it was then that I made it known that I wanted to let my hair grow "cuz, everyone else is doing it" mom didn't buy it, but she was easily worn down, and didn't force the issue. Then, when my father did decide to show up, SNIP! he stopped this practice about 2 years later, and I was getting haircuts about once every 9 months. then when it was job time, dad was insistent on haircuts and keeping it short. I complied at first, then was able to let it grow, it never got longer than 9 inches long and that was at 24, after I was layed off from a very liberal job. I had to get it cut in order to get my next job. It's now at it's longest length ever as I have done nothing but trim splits since Aug 94 (my last actual haircut, I was a food service manager). it's now about 18-20 inches in length, and there is no problem with it at my job as they know my "story" also, I work for people who'd knew me before they hired me.

Randi Malana...I think you have the right idea.......

Melissa(Canada) hi all I hope I am not to lake for the discussion.......I forgot the time changes from east to mst........*grin*

Kimberly from CT heh, I finally got around to finishing that hair answer, GRIN)

Randi Annie our daughter just said hi to you as well!!

Randi not at all hon

Malana Randi, just e-mailed you. Check when not so busy, please.

Melissa(Canada) great, so did I miss much?..............

Randi Melissa please join in

Michelle Anne Yes.. my folks likewise did not like me hsving long hair.. and frequently took me to the barber under protest.. My father was present all the time, but wasn't really a "strong male role model" per se.. he was the breadwinner and all, but mom seemed to be the one in control of the household..Of course that was the explaination the Religious oriented therapist tried to give me for almost a year as to why I felt this way..

Malana Hi Melissa!

Randi Melissa we have had a nice long discussion re: coming out to the parents/family....any thoughts

Randi I will Malana

doc gary well just got apged out to the hospital thanks all for great informative conversation. take care and enjoy the rest of your nite

Kimberly from CT I have wanted to do that Doc. I just keep forgetting to, as although it would be interesting to know what's in there, as it stands it changes nothing for the way the gender clinic I am with would treat me in either psychologically or HRT. To the world around me I am a hermaprhodite, all of this has been taken by all who know me at face value. For some reason it's just easier for people to believe it, must be the way I look or something.

doc gary kim will finish our conversation later thanks

Melissa(Canada) ooo long hair...............My parents were the same way....The S.O is the same way they all hate my long hair......I don't. btw it is just past the shoulders now......finally......The S.O. thinks I am slapping her in the face with the long hair.......There i am just joining in like I was always here...*grin*

Randi Melissa???

doc gary if anyone has info on HRT treatment schedule that might be helpful please email them to me greatly appreciated bye for now oopfs

Michelle Anne Odd thing is, even though my mom is most generally hostile (not verbally, but you can sense it -- old fashioned in the sense that she delegates reprimands to my dad) She's on a couple of occasions ended up sitting down at the dinner table with me having hours of girl talk.. (make-up, hair, guys, etc) I think if I had pointed that out to her, she'd have quickly clammed up and become very upset though.. so there does seem to be a bit of denial on her part as well..

doc gary randi sorry thanks for being a gracious hostess

Melissa(Canada) background for me: 27 yo who is TS who is still married and has not come out to anyone except for the people that I got to know online......The S.O is barlely tolerationg but she knew about the CDing before marriage.......I just was not fully honest wfith her about how far I went.

Kimberly from CT Bye Doc!

Annie That's an important thing, Kim. Although I was technically male, and not intersexed, my hormone condition was known and accepted by all my family as one of my little problems. The school kids made life hell because of it. When my intentions were revealed at 21, most of my family were not so much shocked as surprised at the direction my "cure" was taking. Some of them were releived I was doing something about it at last, however the method. You can't stay androgynous forever in our society!!

Michelle Anne Doc, if you're still here, follow the link in the reference library to the Hormone FAQ..

Malana Melissa, are you still living at home?? Mine kicked me out.

Randi ok how are they now with what is happeneing

Malana Randi, who was 10:23 for?

Randi See you soon Doc

Gayle (Minnesota) bye Doc ... i['m back now had a Phone call from Jonna Randi

Melissa(Canada) yeah we are both very much inlove but it wil be over when I move to become Melissa all the time.....I just hope we can be friends........Sorry about your situation though......

Randi Melissa....because she just arrived, Malana

ClaireM Evening all-

Randi sorry to hear that Melissa

Michelle Anne Hello Claire..

Malana Thanks Melissa, couldn't be helped unless Malana was to be aborted...and I don't think I could've survived that.

ClaireM Hi Michelle-

Michelle Anne BRB need to reboot again...

Annie Well I've got to go... work tomorrow...:(

Kimberly from CT Well anyhow, I think that my unique approach to telling the folks might not be the best for anyone else as this is something that did happen gradually over time, this was built up possibly subconsiously as I don't think I intended on doing it this way, my plan was to just get up money and move out of here and sever all ties with everyone realising that this was what usually happens anyway with all too many. I just happen to have circumstances on my side and at one point I realised exactly what I should do and that transition was not only possible but i could do it right out in the open, the only drawback is that everyone around me has to believe that this is physical and not something I chose to do. If I ever let on that it was any other way, that would trash everything I have accomplished so far.

Malana Hi Claire!

Randi Annie as was mentioned before we are fortunate with our kids.....would not trade them for anything

Melissa(Canada) yeah but for now she doesn't know.......until I am completely sure I will not let her in.......I think she knows or suspects but I have never told her but she is not stupid.......The hardest part is hurting the one that you love the most so much........

ClaireM I just went through a whole weekend of my best friend comming-out to his family. Good and bad news.

Gayle (Minnesota) Hello Claire nice to see you again

Randi **HUGGGSS*** Annie Re:Gayle Kim each of us handles this in different ways

Randi What happened Claire?

Malana Yes, Melissa...and it will hurt!!

Kimberly from CT yeah, same here, beyond bedtime for me, I'll check the logs later this week, sleep is calling me. bye all!

Randi if it is not too personal

ClaireM HI Malana, Randi, Melissa, nite Annie *hugz*

Melissa(Canada) bye all who are going to bed and hi all who have just arrived

Randi Ok KImberly and thank you hon!!!

Kimberly from CT Oh yeah, and be sure to check out this site Web URL

Randi Claire what happened??

Kimberly from CT That didn't work on my end, here...

Randi copied and got it hon!!!!**HUGGGSS***

Kimberly from CT Ok, that did, bye all!

Randi thanks hon

Malana Bye Kim!

Gayle (Minnesota) Bye Kimberly

Randi ***HUGGGSS*** Kim

Michelle Anne rehiya

ClaireM Mark is his name. A gay male, but still my little sister. His family are very redneck ( Ozark born ). Mark told his brother first. Expected a beating, but his brother accepted him. Said he had always known Mark was different. The father also accepted what Mark had to say, but fired him on the spot ( Mark worked for the family ). The father also told Mark tosell his home and move away. Basicly, it was okay your gay, and we accept that, but now you need to disappear.

Randi who else is here??

Melissa(Canada) I am

Randi I am sorry Claire

Michelle Anne present :)

ClaireM Hi Gayle- bye Kim...

Melissa(Canada) That is bad claire.......

Malana Randi, thank you for the opportunity for the terrific chat. I have to run off and call home and let my kids know how much they're loved! Hugs to all and hope to visit soonest!!!!

Gayle (Minnesota) I'm here randi

Randi Claire......what will this person do now??

Melissa(Canada) I ahve always wondererd why people we have never met accept us fwhile the people who are supposed to love us reject us........

Angela Hi everyone! Finally able to get back here....hope I didn't miss too much.

Randi Ok Malana!!**HUGGGSS****

ClaireM Randi- Mark, like most of us, had gotten to a point in his life where he could no longer live a lie. No longer hide from who he is, but rather reach out and start to live. This was all precipitated by his falling in love with my other very good friend Marlin.

Melissa(Canada) dyslexia is in full swing tonite

Randi Angela scroll back or you can get the text later reHi!!!!!

Michelle Anne Melissa, with a stranger there are no expectations.. They can take you for face value.. with family, they gave birth to a boy, often planned out many details of "his" life.. "He'll become a lawyer like his father, marry the girl down the street, and have two wonderful children, etc" so when you say that that is not who you are.. that instantly creates conflict with many folks..

Randi because we do put them up early

ClaireM Mark has no intentions of moving to California as instructed by his father. At 34-years of age, he feels that's a bit out of line. He is however going to sell his home, and move into the city. He feels that it will be safer for him, since his whole home town now knows ( very small town ).

Randi true MiAnne

Melissa(Canada) never thought of it that way before

Randi oh my

Randi sorry

Gayle (Minnesota) Claire I hope it goes well for him

ClaireM Also, Mark now is going to have to fight the courts to see his son ( x-wife has custody and refuses to let Mark see him now he's out ).

Randi his parents are not liberal I take it

Randi damn..

Michelle Anne Melissa.. One of the most interesting lessons I've learned in transition is being able to view the same situation from many different perspectives.. it's very enlightening..

Melissa(Canada) also very handy I bet

ClaireM Gayle- Myself, and several others in the TG and gay community are with him all the way. It's funny how such events pull people together be it anger or common ground.

Randi I am sorry

Randi he has support here too hon

Michelle Anne Very few people understand who we are.. So it becomes even more important for us to try and understand who "they" are.. In better knowing and understanding ones values and beliefs, it becomes that much easier in trying to relate who you are to them..

Randi **HUGGGSS***

ClaireM Thanks Randi- Perhaps if more of the alternate lifestyle communities stood together events like this would be easier and not so difficult to traverse. It's Hell on your own!

Randi exactly understand your opponent......

Randi and hopefully make him/her your friend

Gayle (Minnesota) Claire he has my support...I know i see it before Claire

Randi that is how I would view it

Melissa(Canada) I agree completelly.......If it was not for the people that I have met here I woluld have gone "nuts"......Sometime I stilll feel that I am going nuts.........does this make sense?

Michelle Anne Claire.. now you're touching into the politics of transgenderism as well as that among the respective GLB&T; communities.. Many subgroups feel we should all unite, others feel we should be completely separate and unrelated.. it's created a lot of heated arguments, and would be way out of scope for tonight's topic.. though might be a good one for a future Chat..

ClaireM Gayle- thanks hon, I know Mark would be proud to call all of you his friend!

Randi claire does he have access to the net??

ClaireM Sorry Michelle, it's a warm spot for me.

Gayle (Minnesota) Michelle I feel we need to unite to fight for human rights for all . btu there are some that feel we should stand a lone as you have said.

Randi keep in mind that the political problems are for the most part are caused by the 'leadership' that dose not represent us

ClaireM Randi- Yes..his lover Marlin has a system. BTW, Marlin is head of the gay man's group, and has just recieved a very high award for working with AIDS patients.

Michelle Anne No need to apologize, Claire.. I'm more in favor of union myself.. Getting into the particulars of it opens a really nasty can of worms, and we could be here until next sunday trying to untangle them all.. :)

Gayle (Minnesota) Thnak you Claire ...

Randi Gayle...understood...but there are problems still within that need to be corrected as we have tlaked about before

Randi MiAnne understood

ClaireM Michelle- Lately I have felt an overwhelming need to move away from here. I feel trapped. My sister wants me to move to Vegas. She says I could be myself there. I'am fighting a very deep depression that is lingering just outside my reach. Since I came out to my sister a couple of months ago, the urge to move has grown stronger.

Gayle (Minnesota) Ture Randi .... it's hard to get everyone to work on a common goal ... We know a few of the people that could help but their ego's are in the way

Michelle Anne Very true Randi.. you have lots of people (initials of some being VP, KR, RW, PRF) If you know, you know.. if not.. nevermind :) who like to think they represent the whole community when they really represent only their own opinions and are just more outspoken than many..

Randi that is for a couple of weeks down the road though

ClaireM Michelle- do you think a fresh start is good or bad? I feel so alone here. No family. Good friends, but still no family.

Gayle (Minnesota) Claire Minn is very open minded toa point... Vegas is not a s open as one may think

Michelle Anne Claire.. moving can be a great way to start over anonymously.. but if you're hoping to dash away from your problems, they always seem to have this pesky way of following you no matter where you move..

Randi You have forgotten JR

Rene Doc Gary, Shock therapy will not go away!

Melissa(Canada) you should try being up here in Calgary.........VERY very redneck.......I still run into people here who feel that HIV is a gift from god to rid the world of gays........I am not making this up...........

Angela Hello girls seems like a diverse conversation tonight.

Randi Very true is not all thast great from what I have heard

Gayle (Minnesota Randi one of my favorites to :)

Michelle Anne I don't feel qualified to answer that, Claire.. I lived in the same town I lived most of my entire life for the first 2 1/2 years of transition..No real problems.. Some people rejected, others accepted, and the latter group seemed to become that much closer, know that they finally learned who I really was..Now I live still in the LA area.. but 30 miles from where I used to.. don't know anyone here.. (don't want to know many--lots of drunks and such off of skid row) but, having to start from scratch getting acquainted with people is difficult.. especially when you're rather introverted in public..

Randi Thank you Angela and welcome Re:Rene

ClaireM Michelle- I agree, and I don't nor have avoided my problems. It's just that my heart keeps telling me to go for it.

Michelle Anne anyway, I've got to split.. been a good convo tonight.. Thanks for being such a wonderful hostess, Randi.. and *HuGgS!* to all!

Randi how are things Ladies???

Rene Hi all..only have a sec. Thought I would check in for an update. Looks like I'm missing a great session.

Gayle (Minnesota) Well time for this Girl to get some sleep going back tomorrow after a week of pain

ClaireM Thanks for listening Michelle...your a peach girl. *hug*

Randi OK Mianne see you next week!!!

Angela Hi Randi sorry I was trying to see Mickelle's homepage and it lock up and I got lost.

ClaireM Nite Gayle....sleep tight *smooooch*

Michelle Anne Take care all, and *PooF!*

Randi Ok Gayle**HUGGGSSS*****

Angela Well now I guess I should turn in my degree. The english in that last message was very bad.

Randi that is ok are you???

ClaireM HI Angela-

Randi no hon it was not!

Angela Hi ClaireM, Randi I am just fine but tired of rain and cold. Ready for sunny and warm. How are you tonight.

Randi Angela what part of the world hon??

Angela sorry for double message. I guess the problem is on my end but things keep locking up and then they are fine.

Randi doing ok hon and you???

Angela Randi, I live in Houston Texas, which I guess is warm for most of the world

ClaireM Well I have to run also...back to work after a week of flu. Love you all...good night *huggs*

Randi here it is going below zero

Angela Randi, I live in Houston Texas, which I guess is warm for most of the world.

ClaireM ****Poof***

Randi Ok Claire and thanks for coming...

Randi Minneapolis here hon

Angela Randi I am having major problems here so I am going to sign off and log on with my other provider.

Randi soon to be Portland

Randi OK Angela I was going to close this one out will be in the oer room in about an hour

Randi The Tea room is closed for now......thanks for coming and hope to see y'all next weekend!!!!POOOOFERSSSS!!!


-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC Randi!! Are you still here???